Take a Seat, Cover

Early 2017
Ugh. This seat issue has dragged out for far too long; besides the added effort and cost, it is interfering with riding time too!  To recap, the seat and pan as purchased on bike were not stock; being made of aluminum, the pan also was losing shape and not a good platform for my project.  I purchased a cafe seat which looks great, but was not designed to fit with the 4" rise of the stock rear fender.  Much modification later I got it to fit, but it was too low (not a lot of leg room) and did not meet the tank in an appealing way.  So the next plan was to add two inches of foam to raise the seat height and cover the seat with a stock(ish) cover.  But the leather (vinyl) of the V7 style cover I bought does not stretch enough to retain the foam shape I'm looking for (cafe style similar to my after market cafe seat).

stock Moto Guzzi V7 seat cover

 I finally realized that I'd have to cut and sew my own seat cover.  Although a reasonably capable tailor, not looking forward to this.

Starting with the fabric, I sourced a black vinyl product which has 4-way stretch; I would not characterize it as 'stretchy', merely that it has some give in it.  Not a lot, however, meaning that my cover had better come very close to matching the foam shaped underneath. 

Next was to finish the foam reconstruction of the seat pan to raise the height 2".  This further required an extension to the front of the pan, by which I cut two strips of steel and riveted each to either side at the front.  The foam also needed to be built up around the front to 'cup' the rear of the tank (dark grey section you can see in the photos).

After a few internet searches and YouTube videos, I then tackled the hardest part of the seat cover - a quilting effect on the top.  I glued 1/2" foam to the back of a piece of liner fabric and then to the piece of vinyl I'd cut out in the shape and length I needed (here, I also needed to note that I'd extended the foam top forward about 1", and measure lengths accordingly).  A few practice runs using heavy duty thread had the tension off and the thread binding in the needle.  I had to resort to regular black cotton thread (meaning that however this seat turns out, the stitching will not last forever....).  Sounds like a good excuse to get that industrial sewing machine I'd been thinking about.  So my results are as pictured below.

finished, with piping

compared to purchased cafe seat

I was noticeably off on one row, but when stretched a little and mounted I don't think it will be a problem.  Was pretty happy with how it turned out in relation to the cafe seat I'd originally purchased; except the ridges are 'higher' than I'd wanted since the foam I used was likely a little thicker - should have measured 2" between them instead of 1 3/4".  That piping I had to make from scratch as well.

Next is to measure the rear and sides; but before sewing these on, I'd always really liked the Moto Guzzi logo in white across the back of the V7 cover (and other models as stock).  I hand cut a stencil using clear window decal paper and purchased a can of white vinyl spray paint.  The first test (yes, testing first is always a good idea!) had the paint bleeding under the stencil due to the embossed nature of the leather-looking fabric.  A second test showed that dusting the paint on in a single pass (or two) with 5-10 min in between passes resulted in very little bleed.  Once I started painting the cut rear fabric, it would be all over for better or worse.  Level, square and no bleeding were the goals.

stencil placed along center line

stencil taped for painting

I'll let you know shortly how it all turned out............

Ok, it's about 2 weeks later, and about that time!  The logo painting worked very well, with just a little micro-bleeding under the the stencil (not visible except very close; below).  And after MUCH puzzling and planning and measurement I finally decided how the sides and front would be sewn, and committed to doing so.  The only section I was prepared to mess up was the front, as any errors would be covered by the tank.  Indeed, I had to pull stitching out of the front two times due to flawed estimations.  The rear turned out to be tougher than the front, reverse of what I'd been expecting.  I realize now that any change in surface angle or direction requires a separate section cut out for it; sewn interfaces are much easier to conform to turns and corners, etc, than relying on the stretch of the fabric alone.  But I made it work.  'First' Final product below (not fully tacked down):

I was happy but not entirely so.  The seat on its own looked fine, but was a little bulky looking on the bike itself.  And the 90 degree turns in the back led to bunched up fabric that did not look as professional as I'd hoped for.  So I did some more thinking and looking on the internet for examples of seat shapes.  I realized that a gentle curve up near the tail would both reduce the bulk and avoid sharp bends and thus reduce bunched up fabric.   Even more puzzling and thinking led to a plan.  I had purchased several tack strips but had not used them; one of these would be needed. I realized that if I made two cuts on each side of the seat pan it could be bent upward gradually towards the top of the fender.  A length of tack strip could then be riveted into place across the gap, and over top of the fender, to continue the smooth arc from one side to the other.  Again, my trusty 4" cut-off wheel did quick work of it and soon the idea was tested (below).

curve cut into seat pan (top left) to take the line up and over the rear fender

Once the cover was stretched over the seat pan, the latch mechanism was the last element to construct.  I pulled the one off the seat that came with the bike and, after several measurements, drilled the holes for rivets.  These holes had very little margin for error, as they directly dictated how the seat lined up with the seat tang welded on the frame.  Thankfully my measurements and estimations were good, as the fit and function are perfect.

So I can call the seat done, finally.  The extra leg room and more upright seated position on the bike is noticeable and feels much better than the stretched-out, knees-under-the-armpit position from before.  It is not 100% what I would wish for, but it looks very passable for a first time fabrication, and it works well.   So much went into it too that it deserves to be let go of for a while at this point and just ride.......

Sorting Stuff Out

Nov 2016 - what's next for this Moto Guzzi?

So, with the bike reassembled and the project goal accomplished, I've had the opportunity to put about 250 miles on the 850T.  A few things quickly became apparent, as one might imagine; nothing unusual or troubling, just the routine experiences and observations which come from daily living with such a mechanical entity.  While I can live with it just fine as is, a little attention to the following will enhance the reliability and rideability.  The forks are quite undersprung and the front disc brake is very poor, like a block of wood against steel.  I also found a small leak at the base of the right cylinder and the rear drive leaks as well (minor leaks are a major reason for maintaining a clean bike so, first, you are aware of a potential problem very early and, second, you can more quickly pinpoint the source).  Minor issues are par for the course on a 40 year old bike - note, I do not expect it to handle like any of the other decades-newer bikes in my stable.  Nonetheless, these are correctable, and things that I'd like to sort out.

The first thing is getting the cylinder leaks taken care of (leaving tiny, misted droplets on my boots after a 30 mile ride).  Some brief research implies that this is normal for big block Guzzi's, and should be rectified by re-torquing the cylinder heads.  After sorting through various forum exchanges I determined that the torque needs to be at least 32 lb/ft and no more than 34.  Unfortunately I only have a torque wrench in inch pounds, which tops out at only 3/4 of this range.  Oh well.  Pictured below are the rockers under the valve cover over the left side cylinder.  Another 'unfortunately', the rockers have to come off for access to two of the six bolts holding the cylinder head down.  It was not difficult or all that time-consuming, but I had put it off for a few weeks as the first time doing anything carries with it a little trepidation.  I could feel that the six bolts loosened fairly easily (not easy, just easily enough) - judging that they needed more torque and not having a torque wrench, I simply marked each bolt with a tiny scratch so I could confirm that it had been snugged a tad (technical unit of measure) more than before.  All buttoned up again, the left side is ok but the right still has a little pool of oil collecting on the lower inside.  I've since borrowed a larger torque wrench to get to this job again shortly.  Ugh.

The next thing to warrant attention are the fork springs, since I'd like to correct the saggy feel and dive before addressing the disc brake.  I'd removed and serviced the forks during the rebuild, and put the stock springs back in; whether they ever were in the first place, they are not quite up to the task now.  I called Progressive earlier in 2016 looking for springs with a heavier spring rate for this bike.   I purchased the recommended springs (0.68 kg/mm) but they were 60mm too long.  Or at least they were 60mm longer than the stock springs and I was sure that they could not be compressed enough to fit.  Past 90 days from purchase I could not return them, but the tech told me they could be cut down a few inches.  Consulting Guzziology, it was noted that a spring should generally not be much more than 1.5 inches above the top of the damper shaft at full extension (or spacer length if setting preload).  The stock springs sit at exactly the top of the shaft when not compressed.  Feeling that the Progressive springs would be stiffer than stock, I elected to cut the Progressives down leaving about 1.5 inches.  This was a mistake!  Whether they are stiffer than stock or not, I still cannot really say.  The sag is better and they are compliant and not springy, they still sag several inches under bike and rider weight and then bottom out under heavy braking.
To Resolve - the cut piece can actually be used as a spacer; either with the stock spring or the Progressive.  Although the total length of the Progressive spring may be prohibitively long.....  I just hate to take these on and off in a trial-and-error fashion.  But I cannot identify what the spring rate of the stock spring is.... Ideally, for a bike weighing about 500lbs and a rider (me) weighing about 200lbs, a spring rate of 0.95kg/mm is called for.

above = stock spring (420mm); below = Progressive after cut (total 480mm)

And last, the seat.  I somehow knew that this saga would end with me actually fabricating a seat for myself.  After the shop which made the first cafe seat (too low and interferes with rear fender) promised to replace it, and then waiting another 2+ months, they won't do it.  Options include buying a stock seat just for the pan, or using the cafe pan I have.  I can't use the seat that came on my project as it is not original and was fabricated from aluminum, thus it doesn't hold its shape well and presents problems for attaching the seat cover.  So cannibalizing my new cafe seat for the pan will be my approach.  I also think I can cut off the top of the foam to retain the shape of the cafe seat, as they did quite a good job of this (and it requires patience and skill, two things I have only in limited supply).
Two dense foam pads from Home Depot (gardening kneelers) will serve as the base on top of the pan.  Then the cafe padding, then I bought a roll of 1/2" foam to cover and smooth the underlying layers.  From eBay, I found a Moto Guzzi V7 replica seat cover that has the words 'MOTO GUZZI' in block letters across the back.  The hump is not the same, but close enough that I'm confident that it will fit (and still look "cafe") with a little tuck here and there and extra foam if necessary.

slightly photoshopped to show where it would sit higher after modification

Sneak Preview !

Since my last post 3 weeks ago, there has been progress despite travel and other obligations.  Much of it, however, provides little to show as it involved long due cleaning and final painting of parts as well as assembly of the shock bushings and forks.  But with the frame back from powdercoating and most other parts ready now, reassembly has finally begun.

Above the photo shows the seat and tank mocked to the frame and engine, near enough in final position.  It should be clear how the direction of the final project, although there are many painted parts (both fenders and side covers) and chromed or polished parts (handlebars, headlight bezel and stator cover and wheels) yet to be added for the final look.

The swingarm and triple trees and forks have also been installed.  Since this photo, both carbs are cleaned and ready to go on (thanks, PJ!); new spark plug caps and wires have been added; the wiring harness has been laid out on the frame and connections are being made.  Not long to go!

Custom Seat

June 2016.
This process started back in Feb/Mar with a half a hundred searches for examples of a seat to match the project objectives and fit the 850T frame.  The seat pan on the bike as purchased is a custom, hand-hammered aluminum, which has unfortunately deformed and sagged over time.  Although a new seat was not part of the original plan, I eventually had to conclude that it would never serve as the basis for an upholstered seat and that I would thus be starting with both a new seat pan and seat.
'motorcycleseatsdirect.com' has a wide variety to choose from for many early model brands, and four of these included Moto Guzzi models.  I chose the '3355' cafe style as a starting point and submitted measurements and modifications to suit my desired overall look.  At the time of payment, however, I had not realized that they are based in Vietnam.  Not a big deal in most ways, but the minor communication issues and long lag time for completion and shipping were unfortunate.  However, nothing that was rate-limiting as this will virtually if not literally be about the last thing to go back on the finished project.

 Some shots of the foam construction and seat pan.

hardware for latch to be transferred over; note, base is smooth and flat, not as lighting makes it appear

Final seat as it arrived approximately 3 weeks later.  The fabric is a textured vinyl, although it has a very leather-like look and feel.  The stitching is very straight and uniform.  The foam is forgiving yet firm.  I placed in on the frame and it lines up where I'd expected.  Must wait for tank re-mount to finalize the position to attach the latch mechanism (from the donor pan).
My only negative is that the 'butt stop' is not as steep as I had requested; I drew a clear diagram and asked to accentuate the steepness of the rise to the top of the seat hump, as well as steepen the drop down to the end.  I thought that this might not have translated properly.  If anything, I think they may have done the opposite.  It is still a good looking seat, but it will be many months until the overall look can be assessed as the rest of reassembly is closer to complete.